Rec on Rec fishing...

[Shawn Kimbro]

Don't you guys have better things to do than worry about what me and Jamie think about trolling? I mean, c'mon. With all the challenges out there to sport fishing, you want to go after your friends? Greg, I'm surprised and disappointed. You have more worthy battles to fight.

Reds, I dunno if you're talking about me, but you are damn right I am working to reduce the killing of pre-spawn cows and it ain't no secret. I think a slot is the best way to handle it.

[Shawn Kimbro]

So now I get a backchannel message that says, "we know you are working behind the scenes to ban trolling."


What?

Like I said, I don't have a dog in the fight. The only "behind the scenes" stuff I even know about is that DNR is preparing a "Best Practices" list for trolling. I didn't have anything to do with it and wasn't asked for my input. In fact, when I heard about it, the first person I called to get advice was....... guess who, Greg "Be Faithful". Why? Because I know he understands the issues better than I do.

Otherwise, I've had some conversations with some people (not DNR) about trying to get cradle net videos on some trolled fish for CarefulCatch.com. I hope to do that at some point.

I'm not, never will be, never want to be, in a position to have any political input on trolling. If it comes up again in C&R, of course I'll stand with the trollers because it's rediculous to go after the least harmful method. Read my lips: I support C&R trolling and C&K killing except for killing the cows.

That said, I don't see why everyone isn't casting lures because of how easy it is. And, I'm still gonna laugh at you when you're dragging around those rake handles. I look at trolling like bad breath. Some of my best friends do it but I don't want it right it in my face. So shoot me. Every fishing friend I have, on the Bay or otherwise, sometimes trolls. So far, except for Greg, they haven't started shooting.

So, I'm also gonna take the most drastic political action I've ever taken on this subject. I'm gonna say a prayer for Greg: "Dear Lord, please let Greg catch more fish with 24 rods than I catch with one so he will shut up and leave me the hell alone."

[JohnnyO]

Man I am all sorts of poorly named things because I troll,chum,live line and jig! My heart certianly is in the right place though in my truly humble opinion when it comes to the verilaty of the fishery and getting along with other anglers.
I trolled with 10 rods 2 days in a row and boated 1 fish each day for what it's worth.I like to eat fish and follow the rules set by our govt.. I would be fine with a 1 fish creel limit year round in all bodies of water Rock roam, it wouldn't keep me off the water one more second than I already do. I personally find enjoyment in caching fish with each different type of fishing because it is a challeng or sometimes just a nice change of pace, but i can assure you there is some talent in setting up and catching fish using a trolling spread and sometimes more than jigging!
It doesn't make any sense to me as we ALL have rights (commercial,rec and so on) set up by the powers that be to bust on anyone that follows the rules!
Most anglers are men (or boys in mens bodies!) and there in lies the problem! Our egos, our wounds and other issues we have as men are the problem and there is only one way in MHO to correct that.

Johnny O

[reeltor]

I hope he catches more too...I'm out with him often

Point made time to move on....together. Sounds like we have the same big picture goal in mind, protecting the cows.

[jumbo1]

When this first started out I was sincerely trying to prove a point to a guy at work...about the number of rods he can fit on his boat...
But it seems as though some "true colors" are coming out...
Let's see...I have trolled...chummed..live lined..and didn't like any of them...LTJing is my thing..
Truth is trolling is the easiest way of fishing there is...IMHO opinion the reason trollers don't like LTJing guys is because they can't do it!.....
It's the only game they have,...
Greg..you know damn well I have bmailed you for trolling advice in the past..and as far as this bull about having "all of this repsect" for me and Shawn...Than why do our names keep being brought up.?

I got a bmail from a troller who is really a mate on a charter who keeps posting about how well his boat has done trolling....thats the Capt not the mate...I say good for Him!...
I was accused of being an "arrogant" LTJer....
OK I am...who gives a Crap!!
So let's do this...you trollers (Or should I say the ones that have a problem with LTJers)go back to riding around in the spring and killing cows and us LTJers can catch the rest of the year...and we'll keep catching.....You know as well as I do a monkey can catch a fish with a parachute..(though I have struggled at times with it)..
And don't foget about the Cow Killing MSSA Slaughter too......I have referred to that many times and I think thats how this whole thing started...
Dam glad I bought a Parker!

[5th Tuition]

I was out the other day on a friends boat and we were trolling. After several hours, we only had one fish. If only we had one of those trolling monkeys at the helm.

But seriously; I'd be willing to buy a drink for Shawn, Jamie, Greg, me, and that booze hound monkey (if we can sneek him in the bar); just to stop the misunderstandings among friends.
Come on Baldy, set up another TF get together. I need some more of Fish Nut's chutes anyway.
5th (Marty)

[B-Faithful]

Jamie, I have tried to explain my concerns over the growing anti-trolling sentiment the best I can. I am not aware of a sentiment where people who enjoy trolling dont like people who LTJ. I too am not putting down LTJ or the people who enjoy doing it as I proabably make more trips a year jigging than anything else (despite the fact that I mostly troll during the trophy and late fall seasons). I was addressing a sentiment that has been developing towards those who enjoy trolling on the bay.

I am sorry if you feel personally attacked but the thread you started drew a fire-strom long before I joined it. Therefore it was probably the best place for me to bring up my concerns. However, it was not your thread alone or Shawns article that has fostered the current environment. (as stated before, we are seeing trollers apologizing for their fishing methods in their reports now - and they are fishing legally)

I am glad you read the thread over here where I was better able to explain why I am concerned over some of the language being used. I understand your thread was probably started innocently enough but we are now in an environment where recreational anglers are having their opportunity reduced without science or justification in this state. Unfortunately this is true and has already happened. I fear that trollers efficiency/effort will be the low hanging fruit of future regulations. (best comparison would be like DNR restricting access to the rips because it is a common area where fish concentrations are higher)

I have spoken with Shawn and I believe there is much better understanding between us. I dont have your number but you are welcome to call me. As stated before my cell is 410.533.1435 and welcome a call from you.



BTW, The MSSA tournament has nothing to do with my concerns over possible efficiency/effort reductions being implimented on those that troll in the future. That is only one weekend in the spring and one if the fall. While I fish and enjoy the tournaments (and think they are good for recreational fishing), they are a small percentage of my fishing time. The MSSA tournament can be a seperate debate if you have concerns and want to address it.

Also, I often struggle at trolling too... even with my typical 12 rod spread it takes quite a bit of effort for me to find a fish in the open waters of the bay. That is why they call it fishing. I havent perfected my efficiency yet. I just hope to stay ahead of the 1 fish for every 3 trips level that dnr claims is average for recreational anglers.

Originally Posted by 5th Tuition

Come on Baldy, set up another TF get together. I need some more of Fish Nut's chutes anyway.
5th (Marty)

I got better things to do than hang out with you!!!! (unless it's on a boat)

PS this thread went the way I predicted...YIKES

PPS Greg, when you agree with Zam in public, I think I need to call you to talk too

[B-Faithful]

Shawn, Please read this wordy response at it explains where we are together and why this topic is important to me. (I know I can be wordy and it is easy just to glanse over my writings without reading it)

I am also disappointed in that I believe I had to address a small but growing sentiment that trolling isnt as sporting as other methods. However it is real. There are even people putting up reports here that title them as "Non Sporting Fishing Report" when they catch fish via trolling.

You are right though that there are bigger fish to fry. However I see this as a key point as we move forward. We will see eye to eye on a possible need to reduce the harvest on spawning stock fish. Even if one doesnt believe this is the case, the number of fish harvested last spring does have the eye of some other states in the ASMFC and has the potential to be forced. Where you may fail to miss my point regarding this growing negative sentiment is in that there are several ways Maryland can reduce its harvest on the recreational side. They are:

1. creel limits,
2. season length,
3. size limits, and
4. efficiency.

This is why this topic is so important to me. Maryland cannot reduce its creel limit since it is at 1 fish per angler. The length of the season will be difficult to argue for as the trophy season has a HUGE economic impact to our state and a reduction in season length would probably have the greatest negative impact on that. So now we are left with size limits and efficiency.

Given the anti-trolling sentiment, arguements by the charter boat assn over the catch and release debate that the no-take slot limits of the past had excessive mortality, and combined with the action taken on the preseason and dnr's own data showing an increase in efficiency on the recreational side, it is easy to fear that efficiency would be an easy target. I fear rod and gear restrictions would be easy targets and DNR would only be embolded to take such actions through this sentiment by a few. I also fear a reduction in ones ability to troll more efficiently to turn people off from fishing all together from the spring season reducing the economic impact and participation levels of fishing. To me, a weakening of recreational fishing means a less attention to the needs of recreational fishing causes and strengthens the commercial fishing markets (as their economic impact means more to the state).

I fully agree with you that size limits are best way to handle this. We may disagree in what size-limit restrictions would be best for our state and our fishery but that is a debate for a later date. This will be a small issue in the sceme of things once we get to that point.

The point in my thread was to target the language being used to make trolling look inferior to other methods of fishing. I believe a reduction in this talk will better allow us to debate real issues - like what size or slot limits will best foster a good fishery in Maryland both today and tomorrow. I want to work to enhanse fishing in Maryland to the point where we can even argue for more of the allocation because recreational fishing has grown so much in economic value and participation. I just dont think that is possible when one type of recreational fishermen is viewing their method as "better" than anothers.

I hope this clears up my perspective to why this topic is important to me and you understand that I am not "going after" my friends. I attempted to do my best to publicly go after the language used and not the people. I apologize if you see that differently. If you believe my thoughts and arguements to be off base, I certainly am open to understanding your thoughts.

BTW, I have NEVER stated that you were working to restrict trolling. DNR and members of the SFAC have done a fine job of that without justification. I am just trying to eliminate the environment that would bolster their confidence to do so.

[reds]

Originally Posted by Shawn Kimbro

Reds, I dunno if you're talking about me, but you are damn right I am working to reduce the killing of pre-spawn cows and it ain't no secret. I think a slot is the best way to handle it.

Why pick on Maryland, alone?

If you want to change the world, start with the Virginia, North Carolina harvest in the winter, where they don't know whether it's 200,000 or 800,000 fish harvested. Those fish are pre spawn..... Or include Massachusetts, where they harvest many more big pre spawn fish then Maryland, thru the summer into the fall. All are pre spawn.