Really?

[5th Tuition]

JigStix; I fish out of Ches Beach quite often in the spring and late fall (when boats on the trailer). I love the area from Parkers Creek to the CP buoy when trolling.
We need to fish with one another one day this fall. I'll use my boat trolling (we can eat lots of food and listen to music) and use yours to jig some nice fish (I have some freshwater bass rods 6'6" MH action with BKD's).
Maybe we can find some big girls this fall. I saw Mike at Buzz's saw some gannets the last time he was out.
5th (Marty)

p.s. sent you a PM with phone numbers and email information

[SimpleBiology]

Originally Posted by JigStix

Yes, I really believe that. And unless you were under a rock, or not here at all for the debates that ran wild through these boards, you would know I was right. As soon as DNR proposed regulations (and yes 5thTuition they were targeted at trolling) the trollers quickly turned on the jiggers and light tackle guys. Many names I see regularly on this board were very quick to start pointing fingers and throwing light tackle guys under the bus. Many so called proponents of no regulation were stating things like "Jiggers handle way more fish than any troller" "Fly fishermen fight fish way longer and therefore put more stress on the fish" "a good jigger can put 100 fish in the boat in a day whereas a good troller can put 20"

all of those statements were made over and over again by people on this board. People that left Tidalfish becuase their little feelings got hurt. And there began the great divide among fishing methods.

So, yes, I believe that. And I have rarely trolled, but if regulations were put in against my method of fishing, I would not act like a spurned 5 year old and say "well that's not fair, they need to be punished too"

PS Yes, you do have a say. Show up at the meetings. I was at every single one last year. Was my voice heard, not sure. I spoke at many of them, but stopped as soon as infighting began among fishermen

PPS I fish the same area as you and yes the fishing has been more than adequate

I do live under a rock, I work rotating schedules and it's hard to keep in tune with what people say and do. Politically motivated people do not and will not listen, the great republic that our fore fathers built and their dreams died years ago with professional politicians.

As far as people leaving Tidalfish, I am unaware of that. I started using Cbangler because a guy at the boat show in Baltimore told me about it and how much smaller and easier it is to use. Tidalfish gets too many threads started and it's hard to keep up.

I have never been to any "meetings", I believe if the DNR limits what I can do for fishing then their doing so for a good scientific based reason. I supported alot of last years proposals from DNR, barbless hooks are smart, circle hooks prevent deep throat hooking and a reduction of trolling rods was meant to reduce the number of big reproducing females from being dragged therefore reducing delayed mortality, which is smart. I adapted all of the regulations without any problems to my fishing. The best trophy rock fishing this year was during the C&R. Most of the fish left before the "season" even started and I didn't lose a singe fish or have a single trip hampered by any of the said regulations.

"a good jigger can put 100 fish in the boat in a day whereas a good troller can put 20"
Thats why good anglers will adapt and use a jigging rod when they find fish.

Whats the name of your boat? I'll look for you when I'm out, I'm hoping as the water cools down we will get some good action working ccnp. I'm aboard a 25' chris craft named Daddy's Mess and a 21' parker center console named Daddy's Mess Jr.

By the way "gentleman" and Ladies I have never met any of you. Maybe that will change.


God Bless you, the fishing, and America.

[B-Faithful]

Originally Posted by JigStix

Yes, I really believe that. And unless you were under a rock, or not here at all for the debates that ran wild through these boards, you would know I was right. As soon as DNR proposed regulations (and yes 5thTuition they were targeted at trolling) the trollers quickly turned on the jiggers and light tackle guys. Many names I see regularly on this board were very quick to start pointing fingers and throwing light tackle guys under the bus. Many so called proponents of no regulation were stating things like "Jiggers handle way more fish than any troller" "Fly fishermen fight fish way longer and therefore put more stress on the fish" "a good jigger can put 100 fish in the boat in a day whereas a good troller can put 20"

all of those statements were made over and over again by people on this board. People that left Tidalfish becuase their little feelings got hurt. And there began the great divide among fishing methods.

So, yes, I believe that. And I have rarely trolled, but if regulations were put in against my method of fishing, I would not act like a spurned 5 year old and say "well that's not fair, they need to be punished too"

PS Yes, you do have a say. Show up at the meetings. I was at every single one last year. Was my voice heard, not sure. I spoke at many of them, but stopped as soon as infighting began among fishermen

PPS I fish the same area as you and yes the fishing has been more than adequate

I think you may not have understood the process or what was going on. The first true proposal that was adopted at the SFAC meeting was aimed at everyone regardless of how they fished. It was the day closure proposal that got so many people up in arms and it wasnt proposed by any specific fishermen but by some of those on the SFAC. It was the DNR proposal that was targetted towards trollers. No preseason fishermen was looking to reduce the efficiency of any other fishermen with the exception of a few like Tom Hughes and a few others. It was obvious that soley the efficiency of trollers that was targetted by DNR. However, Any preseason fishermen I know didnt want to see efficiency targetted at all for any fishermen regardless of how they fished. I believe most would concede regulations that would reduce mortality rates but not ones that reduced ones opportunity to catch a fish.

I actually think that it was pretty good that most fishermen who were actively involved stuck together and fought day closures. Examples of how some light tackle people are productive were only to demonstrate that DNR has no clue to what type of fishermen is more efficient and the targetting of efficiency is unjust (as most fishermen know, any method can be more efficient than another on a given day). There is no way to reduce efficiency on light tackle fishermen without closing areas or days to fishing and NO ONE I know who supported access to fishing during the preseaon would support such regulations. Even trollers would rather have gear restrictions over day closures and fought hard to make sure day closures were not enacted. Opportunity to fish is zero during a day closure even if it is greatly reduced through gear restrictions

In regards to the divide between those who enjoy trolling and those who only like to jig during the preseason, I believe that came after the whole preseason debate when there were a number of threads posted to ridicule the use of trolling gear during the trophy season (as it came on the heals of efficiency restrictions trollers faced and relatively much lower catch rate during the preseason). I say this even despite the facts that the CCA noted that they would have signed onto a one rod per person restriction that the CBF represenative proposed if it meant no day closures and Tom Hughes and a few others were calling for one rod per person restrictions at the meetings which would have rendered trolling so inefficient that it wouldnt have made it worth the effort. I will remind you that no one went on record at the DNR calling for the closure of the rips or other areas of concentration that light tackle guys like to fish despite some good fishing and high number catches reported there because no one would want that. Heck, we would want to fish those areas if trolling isnt effective enough

Obviously everyone has their perception of what happened. All I know is that it was bitter-sweet. The opportunity to fish during the preseason didnt get shut down, nor were day closures implimented. However, unfortunately the opportunity to catch fish while trolling was greatly reduced without sound justification and there seems to be more a divide amoungst fishermen today. Either way, I am glad to still be able to fish the bay all year in whatever method I believe will give me the greatest enjoyment.

I state all this not to further the divide but to offer another perspective and hope deminish the riff that appears to be there. I enjoy all types of fishing whether it is trolling, jigging, chumming, livelining spot or eels, etc. I just like to catch fish and be on the water. Some of the guys who fish with me are die-hard light tackle guys and we have a great time on the water no matter how we fish.

Hopefully we all can focus on the fall season and not focus so much on the issues of the past.

[5th Tuition]

Everyone needs to stay united; I'm afraid "round two" may be coming this winter.
5th (Marty)

[JigStix]

Originally Posted by B-Faithful

I think you may not have understood the process or what was going on. The first true proposal that was adopted at the SFAC meeting was aimed at everyone regardless of how they fished. It was the day closure proposal that got so many people up in arms and it wasnt proposed by any specific fishermen but by some of those on the SFAC. It was the DNR proposal that was targetted towards trollers. No preseason fishermen was looking to reduce the efficiency of any other fishermen with the exception of a few like Tom Hughes and a few others. It was obvious that soley the efficiency of trollers that was targetted by DNR. However, Any preseason fishermen I know didnt want to see efficiency targetted at all for any fishermen regardless of how they fished. I believe most would concede regulations that would reduce mortality rates but not ones that reduced ones opportunity to catch a fish.

I actually think that it was pretty good that most fishermen who were actively involved stuck together and fought day closures. Examples of how some light tackle people are productive were only to demonstrate that DNR has no clue to what type of fishermen is more efficient and the targetting of efficiency is unjust (as most fishermen know, any method can be more efficient than another on a given day). There is no way to reduce efficiency on light tackle fishermen without closing areas or days to fishing and NO ONE I know who supported access to fishing during the preseaon would support such regulations. Even trollers would rather have gear restrictions over day closures and fought hard to make sure day closures were not enacted. Opportunity to fish is zero during a day closure even if it is greatly reduced through gear restrictions

In regards to the divide between those who enjoy trolling and those who only like to jig during the preseason, I believe that came after the whole preseason debate when there were a number of threads posted to ridicule the use of trolling gear during the trophy season (as it came on the heals of efficiency restrictions trollers faced and relatively much lower catch rate during the preseason). I say this even despite the facts that the CCA noted that they would have signed onto a one rod per person restriction that the CBF represenative proposed if it meant no day closures and Tom Hughes and a few others were calling for one rod per person restrictions at the meetings which would have rendered trolling so inefficient that it wouldnt have made it worth the effort. I will remind you that no one went on record at the DNR calling for the closure of the rips or other areas of concentration that light tackle guys like to fish despite some good fishing and high number catches reported there because no one would want that. Heck, we would want to fish those areas if trolling isnt effective enough

Obviously everyone has their perception of what happened. All I know is that it was bitter-sweet. The opportunity to fish during the preseason didnt get shut down, nor were day closures implimented. However, unfortunately the opportunity to catch fish while trolling was greatly reduced without sound justification and there seems to be more a divide amoungst fishermen today. Either way, I am glad to still be able to fish the bay all year in whatever method I believe will give me the greatest enjoyment.

I state all this not to further the divide but to offer another perspective and hope deminish the riff that appears to be there. I enjoy all types of fishing whether it is trolling, jigging, chumming, livelining spot or eels, etc. I just like to catch fish and be on the water. Some of the guys who fish with me are die-hard light tackle guys and we have a great time on the water no matter how we fish.

Hopefully we all can focus on the fall season and not focus so much on the issues of the past.

Believe me, I understand the process, and I know who you are and was at all but maybe one or two meetings last year. Just because I'm a redneck, does not make me a dumb redneck. You were very outstpoken, as were quite a few others on Tidalfish. In the beginning it was quite a good debate. But, then I saw the posts you refer to between you and some of the more promintent jiggers. Not just you, but a few others too. I know what they said to you, and I saw what you all said to them. Then I saw it start to get personal. I saw one person finally have it with you, and I saw you indirectly blast another prominent light tackle fisherman who just bought one of the boats you represent. Probably not your best moment I assume. Believe me, I understand the process, and I understand what went on behind the scenes, and I understand the defensive posture many trollers took (and justifiably so), but the light tackle guys stood right beside you and fought even though it did not effect them at all. I'm not so sure the outspoken trollers would have done the same had the shoe been on the other foot.. What I dont understand is how it got so out of hand.

Yes, there was some teasing going on, but you fellas always tease on this board. Just seems you were a little more sensitive (and understandbly so) about this craziness. What I don't understand is why they (you included) began to ask the question "why are there no restrictions on jiggers" "why are you only targeting trolling." When you resigned yourself to the fact that you were getting trolling restrictions, rather than regroup and say "how are we going to fix this going forward", you began to lash out. Not all the time, but you and others got quite defensive. It was as if you wished since there were restrictions on trolling, other methods should get them too, not what should have been done; and that is to work together and have the restrictions taken away in the future. I don't know if it was you or one of your friends, but what stuck in my craw was the comment I read "well you jiggers can just deal with it, because now us trollers are going to start flooding all your spots. See how you like that"

Remember, it was a troller, trolling through a gannet bee hive that started the mess to begin with. If you didn't feel the need to brag all the time and post all your big dead rockfish, none of this mess would have happened. I have no problem with you, I like what you stand for mostly, but you are partially guilty for the divide.

At this point, yes, I agree with you. Let's let the past be the past, but if this mess comes up again, let's all think twice and work together and keep the infighting to a minimum. I have since moved to south county so access to Annapolis meetings are out of my range, but you localy boys are gonna need to be there. My sources say we will see quite a few more proposals this winter, so we need to be ready and make sure we keep full access to the resource. Keep charging hard young man and keep 'er on point and we'll have lots of fish to catch for a long time.

[JigStix]

Originally Posted by 5th Tuition

Everyone needs to stay united; I'm afraid "round two" may be coming this winter.
5th (Marty)

Well said 5th Tuition!

[5th Tuition]

This topic is mostly what turned me off toward Tidalfish. There are too few of us on THIS board to lose anyone over past actions. As JigStix says, we need to stay vigalent on future restrictions.

GettinJiggyWidIt (JigStix); did you get my PM?

5th (Marty)

[SimpleBiology]

Originally Posted by JigStix

Well said 5th Tuition!

I think this kind of conversation is good, it gives anglers the opportunity to reflect on other anglers views.

I do believe that recreational anglers should be united against greedy commercial fisherman and that all of us should do whatever it takes to protect our fisheries.

Back to Jigstix comment, Who ran their trolling lines through nets or should I ask what a gannet beehive is before assuming? I know what a the bird gannet is however not the phrase. Did that make a serious mess? Assuming it recieved alot of attention.

[Mikie]

Originally Posted by SimpleBiology

I think this kind of conversation is good, it gives anglers the opportunity to reflect on other anglers views.

I do believe that recreational anglers should be united against greedy commercial fisherman and that all of us should do whatever it takes to protect our fisheries.

Back to Jigstix comment, Who ran their trolling lines through nets or should I ask what a gannet beehive is before assuming? I know what a the bird gannet is however not the phrase. Did that make a serious mess? Assuming it recieved alot of attention.

A gannet "beehive" is simply a large flock of feeding, working gannets over a school of fish. The "troller" who basically started the whole saga was "27 Sailfish" when he trolled about 20 or so lines through the school and hooked up 14 or so trophy cows. He posted pictures of several cows laying on the deck while they were trying to land them all. Since this was PRE-season, having all of those large fish laying on the deck didn't sit well with a lot of people!

[Skip]

Mikie - I went back and found the post.
There were no fish laying on the deck. Everyone just unhooked their fish in the water - then reeled in another one. No one had time to grab a camera.
From first hook up to last fish released was less then 5 minutes.
Far too many rumors spread about what really happened that day.

The real thing to consider - how bad the 2010 season was compared to the last 5-6 years.

Here's the post - copied. The photos did not come through ???????



18 rods out - 17 go down at once. I'll make you suffer a touch before I get to the juicy details. Saturday night my wife reminds me of a good local band that is playing. We had made plans to see "Korupt" with some friends. I'm planned a fishing trip leaving my house at 5:45 am but figured I could catch a nap on the boat since I had a good crew. The band was great and at 1:30 am I was singing along with them - Ozzy Osborne's "Bark at the moon ". B-52 shooters are bad . The alarm went off at 5:00 am and I woke up almost ready to fish but my ears were still ringing. Oh boy , this will be a tough day. Fellow Tfers Phil and Ed showed up right on time and helped me hook up the trailer. They both help out with Wish a Fish and we have been trying for a long time to fish together. My good friend John arrived and off we went to Breezy Point. Got there about 7:00 and saw about 8 other trailers in the lot. My friend Alberto and his son Oscar were there to round out a good crew. Five guys on the boat and I figured to get the spread out and let Alberto run the boat while I caught up on some sleep. Not to be - we set lines out west of #78 in 45 feet and had about 6 rods out and already had a fish. Water was 52* , clear and seas were flat. John got the fish in quick and after a photo - it was let go. It hit a tandem off the boards.



We guessed it to be 37 or so. Nice start and we continued to put out the other rods. Ed got the next one -it hit a single chartrusese 4 oz parachute.




We got all 18 rods out by 8:20 and started to work east/west off Parkers. Only a few other boats around but we heard others fishing and some catching both north and south of us. As low tide arrived - the current stopped but we still got a fish here and there.The fish were hitting off the boards and both the tandems and singles were catching. We had lures back 50-90 feet and saw no real pattern to the hits. Phil and Ed doubled up on two strikes.




I was starting to feel more like myself after a few donuts and then the 200' back tandem got crushed. John fought the fish half way in - then it got loose. The parachute it hit was combed out and John slowly let it back out. The rig was about 150' out when it got hit and John hooked the fish. The fat 35 incher released. We had worked south of #78 about a mile and started to troll the eastern edge in behind the marker. Saw some thick bait and both downriggers got hit. They carry white or chart. umbrellas at 20 and 30 feet. The wire line with a 20 oz MoJo / Tony #21 combo got hit at the same time - cool three on at once. So much for my nap idea. Swung back around and again saw bait on the meter and sure enough - two more Rock hit. Had a few fish miss but each pass in that area yielded at least 2 or 3 fish. All were about 33 -36 inches but carried their weight well. Oscar was amazed at the double and triple headers and asked if I had ever had all the rods hooked up at once. I told him no but have had 10 once and 6-7 a few times. Saw TFer One Fish and called him to stay near my trolling path. He was LTJ for them. We had a few Gannets dive near us and out catch total stod at 21. Talked to Catman (Leon) and he headed our way. Swung north of #78 and got forced off the fish by another boat. Tried hailing them to see if they would let me go in front of them but no luck. They had the right of way and I did not want to risk a tangle with too sharp of a turn. I really,really hate getting tangles. We did a figure eight path and started back towards the edge we had been catching fish. Up ahead - we all saw about 100 Gannets forming up.



It was about a 1/2 mile away but we would be the first boat there - although Leon had a good angle on the Gannets as well. As we got closer - they started dropping like missiles. I thought out loud that this may not be a good idea - going into a bee hive with 18 rods out - but how often in spring do you get more then 5-6 on at once ? Well , as we got closer ,rods began getting hit. Soon every rod but one was hooked up. It was a mess - everyone reeled the close rods in - unhooked the fish and tried to keep some order to the out of control bite. I was cussing and laughing at the same time. I told the guys to just lay on the fish and push the drags to the max. I glanced over and Leon's crew was busy as well. The final tally was 18 fish - one tandem had two. One reel had blown out the side plate and another busted a gear.






Four lines had crossed and I had a braid/mono cobweb about the size of a volleyball. Did I mention I really hate tangles.





There was blood everywhere - on the seats,steering wheel, rods,shirts but none of it was from the fish. Even up on the hardtop near the rod holders. All of us had cuts/nicks from the fish,braid or hooks. I was even cut on the stomach from a dorsal fin. We swung off the spot as about 15 boats converged on it. The Gannets flew off and we tried to get some lures back into the water. The busted reels were put in the cabin but soon we had 14 lines back out. After that cluster f *%k - we stayed in the deep channel water and picked up about 5 more fish - just single bites - thankfully. I got to reel in a fatso from the WWB - it hit a silver 13/0 Cripple alewive spoon with reflective tape.





Looked to be 41 inches or so but very heavy. The guys were all teasing me about cussing like a sailor and I just laughed along with them. You had to be there to really appreciate it . What the hell was I thinking trolling a full spread into that feeding frenzy. Guess like any addict - the pull of the addiction over rode common sense. We worked along the 45-55 foot edge off the west side and pulled lines at 2:30 near 78A. Had all but three in when Oscar got a last minute fish off the boards. Final count as best we could tell was 44 fish landed and 7-8 misses. It was a fun day with good friends - the catching was just icing on the cake .