Rec on Rec fishing...
 

I posted this in a response on a thread on TF and thought it warranted being discussed over here. While I know a lot of the back and forth is in fun and I enjoy that as much as most, I do have concerns that that some of this rec on rec setiment is gaining traction and serves little good to recreational fishing as a whole. Lets face it, even DNR was at SPSP taking surveys this week and was not even looking at the fish. They wanted to know how long an angler fished, how many rods they trolled if they were trolling, and how many fish were caught/kept (without a check). I am unware of any fish inspections that took place to check the size of the fish, sex of the fish kept, whether or not they carried roe, etc. I know DNR does do some gill net surveys to check these things and maybe it is possible that other surveys of the sort were taken in other areas of the bay but I found it odd that they were concerned about rod numbers when information about the fish being caught on artificials would seem more pressing to me. Afterall, all recreational anglers can only keep one fish over 28" this time of year anyhow so the rod question seems irrelivant unless people were keeping more fish than their limit.

Well, here is what I had said:

It appears that there is a growing feeling of superiority for their method of fishing or concerns that trollers are catching more fish due to their use of a greater number of rods by some on the fishing forums and local light tackle bloggers. I would like to address this trend. While trollers tend to use more rods at once, they are attempting to cover large open areas of the bay and not stay on structure. Trollers tend not to run 100 miles in a day looking for signs of heavier fish concentrations but stay close to port and find a few fish. Dont get me wrong, there will be big number reports occassionally by the troller who finds a good concentration of fish. However this is not the norm and the same for other methods of fishing. Just as there is the occassional report of trollers catching high numbers of fish, there are reports here of light tackle guys handling 50-100 fish between just a couple of guys on boat on the flats and in the rips. It only takes a few minutes to scan through the reports here and other places to see that despite trolling with planerboards and the use of several rods per angler that the vast majority of anglers are fortunate to catch a few fish each. As one who launches out of the most popular access point in the state, I will say that this becomes very evident from speaking with other anglers. This is also evident through DNR and MRFSS studies that show about one fish is caught per 3 angler trips on the bay.

Trolling is a very popular method of fishing due to the ability to find a few fish that are not in higher concentrations and not having to run very far from home. It also a way where more anglers can fish together effectively and safely while working as a team in different capacities. Trolling is a method that is used by many on the bay to get out and enjoy our most-prized, beautiful natural resource. This is evident by the amount of people on the water utilizing this method this time of year.

I believe some of these concerns and growing attitude towards those who troll is probably due to the crowds that many fishermen encounter this time of year. While I too can get frustrated by the crowds of people fishing this time of year in some areas (trollers in the channels, light tackle guys in the flats, rips or around the bridge, chummers off Hacketts or love point, even sailboaters outside the severn, etc), I do fully appreciate the fact that so many other recreational users are out enjoying the public natural resource. Because so many citizens directly enjoy the resource, I know that issues pertaining to its health will get more attention. By those enjoying the resource through recreational angling and having such a strong economic impact to our state regardless of how they enjoy to fish, it gives us fishermen ammuniton to argue to retain our access and opportunity over other interests.

With all this said, I ask that recreational anglers to stop its apparent migration towards criticizing those who dont enjoy the type of fishing that a particular angler favors. We all have the same creel limit, season length, and fish size regulations regarldess of how one choses to enjoy fishing. Also let's face it, regardless of how you fish, if everyone fished like you, your spots would be even more crowded.

all I can say is glad I've barely looked at these boards in a while...I will reserve my full answer (just as I do my reports now) for PM, phone, or person to person. This can only stir up a hornets nest. I had to go look for it on TF, but it appears that thread started out pretty calm and went downhill

I've been preaching since C&R started that **** like this was going to happen...but Greg, I'll be honest, I think Jamie's post was as bland as it gets, honestly just asking a question and then it got blown out of proportion. I don't know Jamie as well as I know a lot of the great LT fishermen, but I don't think any of them have an air of superiority at all. People getting defensive, then getting others defensive, causing fishermen to fight, causing us to lose rights...I could go on, but as I said, I don't want everything on the interweb for all to see...I don't think this post can do anything but cause further division that was not there, or make any that was there worse...

There is still lobbying going on behind some doors to further restrict trolling by RECS. You might or might not troll but we'd better stick together or sooner than later we'll ALL be running, gunning and fighting to get to the birds first.
Anyone remember the Dumping Grounds in the old "bumper boat" days?

I can assure Greg has nothing but respect for Jamie and the LTJ gang.

I'm not gonna get into it, but Jamies a gentlemen's gentlemen.

His first reports were often to educate anglers on TF, and then it turned into a pissing match.

I am sure Jamies post wasnt intended as a stone and as I stated over there that I should be clear that my previous post is not intented towards Jumbo, who started this thread, or any other individual. I just want to address the seemingly growing divide amoungst recreational fishermen that is becoming more and more evident to ensure that we all continue to work together to have access and opportunity to fish the bay in the manner which we enjoy most. I think all recreational fishermen will be better served by appreciating one another and advocating management with better access for all through harvest season length, creel limits and size limits.

I greatly value Jamie and others who share their knowledge of jigging. I have learned a lot from them over the years and hope to continue to do so. They are inspirations for anglers to get on the water and try to catch a fish! :)

I don't want to be part of the pissing match over their either, Jamie has helped me in the past and I won't get into it about his thread - I don't really care because I don't get too worried about threads on forums in the grand scheme of things.

But, I'll say this - from what I've heard and experienced myself, this week has been slow. What happens when the "data" comes in and shows guys trolling 16-20 lines pulling in 0-5 fish consistently and the guys with 4 rods getting 0-2. Sounds like reason not to have any rod restrictions because having big spreads really isn't making a real difference right now. Of course, there is always that outlier when for instance, you get a late start and have a good day in shallow water ;) In short, I'm not worried about the survey. Besides, if the powers to be wanted "data" showing some extreme number of rods per boat, they'd just make it up like they did in the past.

I didn't see anything critical of trolling in Jamie's comments. Since I guess it was my blog you are referring to, I think most everyone here knows what I think of trolling. If that was the only way I could catch a fish, I'd shoot myself. I'm too ADD. That's my personal issue, doesn't have anything to do with what you do except I hope there's plenty of beer on the boat if you take me trolling. That said, I don't care if you do and more power to you although I do think it's a little rediculous to resort to dozens of rods.

I've supported trolling in political discussions and was squarely in your corner during the C&R depate. I haven't heard anything about DNR looking to limit rods. If they do, I don't have a dog in the fight so I won't be involved.

What I am advocating with my VAMPIRE WEEKEND post on CLT is going to all C&R through the trophy season. If you can stand the smell, go take a look in the dumpster at Breezy Point and count the carcasses with eggs. If my opposition to that strikes you as rec on rec, then so be it. I'm opposed to killing the cows, not to fishing for them.

Shawn, i appreciate you chiming in. You are always a stand-up guy and I fully respect you and your opinions. While we may agree on most things, there may be times where we offer different perspectives. I hope we can always have open dialogue and a nice friendship.

A couple of your recent articles were just some of the numerous things written that has been brought to my attention regarding what is being seen by some as a rising anti-trolling setiment in the recreational fishing community. I must say that I do fear some of the language within the article does foster some of the setiment I am seeing rise. Being that you are highly respected by so many, including myself, and you work on the CCA legislative committee and closely with the CBF on some projects, your perspectives carry a lot more weight than most. Of course your articles were just one source of the many comments made regarding trolling throughout the spring and winter.

A lot of this publicly written online feedback by some combined with recently proposed and implimented greater restrictions specifically on trolling during catch and release only season, DNR focus on efficiency over the increased numbers of fish harvest last spring on the recreational side (still less than 1 fish for every 3 trips taken),and recent rod surveys taken at access points has many of us who thoroughly enjoy trolling as a method of fishing in the spring, has me concerned over further targeted restrictions. I can only speak for myself in stating that I dont think that is the best way to manage the fishery for sustainability while enhansing and enticing the citizens of the state to participate in the recreation. I also believe that attempting to reduce efficiency, while it is still relatively low, to be good precedence for future management. I fear it will have a negative impact on the still growing recreational fishing paticipation. As I stated in the other forum, we all strive to maximize our efficiency so we can best enjoy the act of fishing. It is why we spend so much money on the latest and greatest equipment like electronics, search for common areas that hold fish, and look for signs of higher concentration of fish. I personally would like to see any reductions on the harvest of fish be done through the basics in recreational fishing management: creel limits, harvest season, length, and size limits. *

The above is why I wanted to start this thread. I wanted to address this issue or even just a potential issue before there was too much seperation in the unity of the user groups. While some may disagree with when the trophy season starts and/or what the regulations are around what fish we can keep, we all have the same regulations to live by regardless of how we fish. I think we all need to keep the finger pointing down about other recreation fishermen who choose to fish differently. I believe we all need to focus on the debate over the basics of fisheries management (both on the recreational and commercial side). I dont state this a troller but as a recreational fishermen, who wants to see recreational fishing enhansed for all who desire to access our resource.

(*given the creel limits are 1 per person and the trophy season is such a draw and economic impact to our recreational fishing community, I suggest that size limits would make the best consideration -- no take slot to ensure more fish are released would be the best consideration IMHO. It would provide for the chance to keep a fish, land a fish of lifetime, retain records, and reduce the number of fish being harvested. I believe it would still retain participation levels of the trophy season as evident when we had such regulations a few years ago -- An area where we may disagree).

This entire thread is "much ado about nothing". Why anyone would care about how another fishes is beyond me. Everybody has their favorite way to fish. Who cares? Enjoy the sport the way you like. I don't eat rockfish so I release all that I catch. Doesn't make me any better then the guy that keeps his. It's called choice. We've all heard "different strokes for different folks". I can't see why a controversy should start about how one elects to fish. The best bet is to ignore posts that get into that sort of thing. That is the fastest way they will stop. Nobody has to defend they way they fish to anyone. In fact we used to call the guys that started these kind of threads "trollers". Just looking to create unnecessary problems between fishermen. Let it die and enjoy fishing for what it is not what you think it should be.

Don't sweat it, Greg. I also think bait fishermen are dimwits and fly fishermen are pansies. I work hard at being an equal opportunity offender.

CLT is mostly written for light tackle anglers or those who want to be. One of the goals is to show that you don't have to spend a zillion dollars on equipment or drag around rake handles to catch the big ones. Some of the fun of light tackle is taking pot-shots at the trollers, especially when we're in shallow water and set up over big fish and we see you guys idling by looking bored. On the other hand, I've been pretty envious of trollers after I've run 95 miles and barely wet a line.

I'm not trying to get up a bandwagon to limit rods and I know a few trollers who are actually pretty good fishermen. :D In fact, I'm hoping to get out with some of you guys to do some cradle net videos sometime soon. I say do whatever you can to have a good time. And, Lord knows I'm no more influential than the next guy with DNR. The C&R thing proves that.

On the other hand, if you want to argue about killing the pre-spawn cows..... I'm your huckleberry! ;)

:confused::rolleyes::mad::mad::(:(

Ted,
Shawn was there, along with many other light tackle fishermen, all winter long, at every meeting fighting for fishermen's rights. He stood side by side with trollers and bait fishermen and fly fishermen as did many of us and fought to keep C&R restriction free. We need to stand together, and not have posts like this. I have known Greg a long time and know what he meant by this post, but I don't think it should be up here, but I respect his right and opinion to post it. I think posts like this are more divisive than uniting. I have been posting since this started, mainly on TF, that we need to keep stuff like this off the boards. We are all grown men and most of us, at least on this board, communicate via phone or e mail or text and just IMHO probably better in this case...

maybe not so much on this board as it is a smaller and more controlled audience, but on TF it is going to cause more problems...this all stemmed from Jamie asking how many rods you troll...talk about a turnaround! Maybe I'm just tired, but that's how I read it...
Mark

Mark,
I did not mean to offend anyone, just saying we need to stand together for all rec fisherman not just pick and choose.
I want everyone to catch a fish however way THEY choose to.

TED

Rumor has it, there is a red herring within your group. He is working hard to do harm to the Spring Season.

Here is a little tip to the red herring. If the catch and keep season is shortened, the catch and release season will be also. *** for tat.

Reds, I doubt the catch and release season could be shortened. I know I would be one of the first in line to potentially challenge that under the Freedom to Fish Act. As Baldy stated, we all stood together on that subject and I know that would be the same.

Point of my thread was to address the growing sentiment against the practice of trolling, not attack those that primarily enjoy fishing in other ways. Also, my addressing the issue wasnt solely based on Shawn's articles at all but a growing judgement that is becoming clearly evident, particularly on Tidalfish, through many other responses. There are numerous posts that show either an sense of elitism over those who troll or deragatory remarks because so many people enjoy the practice this time of year. Some may believe it is an over-sensative concern but lets also face the facts that:

• DNR targetted trolling specifically with their catch and release restrictions without any science or information on the efficiency or impact of the practice
• DNR is now interviewing anglers at access points to how they are fishing and how many rods
• Representatives on the SFAC have shown little appreciation for the act of trolling during the catch and release debate with their vote/recommendation(CBF member stated that he didnt think it was particularly sporting, Lateral Line/TidalFish rep wanted to limit the number of days one can troll, CBF presented a compromise that all but eliminated trolling through gear restrictions of one rod per angler and it was deemed acceptable by others on the commission)
• DNR has noted the increase in "efficiency" by recreational anglers in their report to why Maryland recreational anglers drastically increased the fish harvested during the trophy season (went from about 1 fish for every 5 trips taken to almost 1 fish per 3 trips taken by recs- they did also note larger min of 2006, no take slot of 2007, fuel prices of 2008, and more "fishable" days of 2009)

There are just concerns over this growing sentiment by some from within our community and it encouraging our fisheries managers to further restrictions are valid. I thought enough so that it is worthy of addressing publicly.

My post was not to "call out" anyone or specially target Shawn or Jamie, both of who I and many others have the highest level of respect for. However Shawns article and the thread that Jamie started, whether innocent or just having fun, do contribute to the other fires that have seemingly been burning. Lets face it Jamies post can easily be read that he was implying this:

To state other-wise is naive. Why would he ask how many rods people are trolling then state that he will start the thread by stating that only uses one rod to jig? He also noted that he will bring trolling rods but doesnt say how many (the whole point of his thread!) and only notes that he thinks the parachutes waving in the wind look cool. If he was looking for real information on efficiency he could have asked how many fish were caught and how many rods were being trolled to see if there was a link given the opening statement of his thread. Like I said, I normally would find it innocent and did initially until my phone was ringing off the hook with guys questioning what is going on with DNR interviewing anglers at SPSP about trolling effort after what we went through over the winter.

If it makes me a bad guy for asking all recreational anglers to not foster these-types of sentiments or fuel the fire, whether the posts are in fun or not, then so be it. I have tried not to criticize those who enjoy fishing in different manners than myself. I have strived to point out that we all have the same creel, size limits and season length. We also strive to maximize efficiency on the water with the methods that we choose to use. Again, I dont target Shawn or Jamie but do want to target the judgement against trolling. Jamies post just was the best place to communicate it publicly since the thread had so much attention.

I should also note that I probably make almost as many trips jigging a year as I do trolling. The trips are just shorter and mostly through the summer and fall until late oct/november when the migratory fish show back up. I have also learned a lot from shawns articles and Jamies posts and believe I have become a better fishermen because of them.

I hope this clears up why I started this thread and took the time to respond to the the thread on TF the way that I did. It is not my intentions to be critical of any person specifically or the method in which one choses to fish.

If anyone wants to call to discuss further, my cell is 410.533.1435.

Ted,
No offense at all..in my own way i as agreeing with you, just letting you know about Shawn standing right up for all recs rights this winter...I'm pretty sure he was at every meeting. Hell I fish every way known to man...while I consider myself a Light Tackle guy, I like almost every method...(I can take or leave chumming :) )

I just think this topic exploded...but I've been trying to stay away from this issue and C&R lately as I Get too fired up about it...

Don't you guys have better things to do than worry about what me and Jamie think about trolling? I mean, c'mon. With all the challenges out there to sport fishing, you want to go after your friends? Greg, I'm surprised and disappointed. You have more worthy battles to fight.

Reds, I dunno if you're talking about me, but you are damn right I am working to reduce the killing of pre-spawn cows and it ain't no secret. I think a slot is the best way to handle it.

So now I get a backchannel message that says, "we know you are working behind the scenes to ban trolling."


What? :confused:

Like I said, I don't have a dog in the fight. The only "behind the scenes" stuff I even know about is that DNR is preparing a "Best Practices" list for trolling. I didn't have anything to do with it and wasn't asked for my input. In fact, when I heard about it, the first person I called to get advice was....... guess who, Greg "Be Faithful". Why? Because I know he understands the issues better than I do.

Otherwise, I've had some conversations with some people (not DNR) about trying to get cradle net videos on some trolled fish for CarefulCatch.com. I hope to do that at some point.

I'm not, never will be, never want to be, in a position to have any political input on trolling. If it comes up again in C&R, of course I'll stand with the trollers because it's rediculous to go after the least harmful method. Read my lips: I support C&R trolling and C&K killing except for killing the cows.

That said, I don't see why everyone isn't casting lures because of how easy it is. And, I'm still gonna laugh at you when you're dragging around those rake handles. I look at trolling like bad breath. Some of my best friends do it but I don't want it right it in my face. So shoot me. Every fishing friend I have, on the Bay or otherwise, sometimes trolls. So far, except for Greg, they haven't started shooting.

So, I'm also gonna take the most drastic political action I've ever taken on this subject. I'm gonna say a prayer for Greg: "Dear Lord, please let Greg catch more fish with 24 rods than I catch with one so he will shut up and leave me the hell alone."

Shawn, Please read this wordy response at it explains where we are together and why this topic is important to me. (I know I can be wordy and it is easy just to glanse over my writings without reading it)

I am also disappointed in that I believe I had to address a small but growing sentiment that trolling isnt as sporting as other methods. However it is real. There are even people putting up reports here that title them as "Non Sporting Fishing Report" when they catch fish via trolling.

You are right though that there are bigger fish to fry. However I see this as a key point as we move forward. We will see eye to eye on a possible need to reduce the harvest on spawning stock fish. Even if one doesnt believe this is the case, the number of fish harvested last spring does have the eye of some other states in the ASMFC and has the potential to be forced. Where you may fail to miss my point regarding this growing negative sentiment is in that there are several ways Maryland can reduce its harvest on the recreational side. They are:

1. creel limits,
2. season length,
3. size limits, and
4. efficiency.

This is why this topic is so important to me. Maryland cannot reduce its creel limit since it is at 1 fish per angler. The length of the season will be difficult to argue for as the trophy season has a HUGE economic impact to our state and a reduction in season length would probably have the greatest negative impact on that. So now we are left with size limits and efficiency.

Given the anti-trolling sentiment, arguements by the charter boat assn over the catch and release debate that the no-take slot limits of the past had excessive mortality, and combined with the action taken on the preseason and dnr's own data showing an increase in efficiency on the recreational side, it is easy to fear that efficiency would be an easy target. I fear rod and gear restrictions would be easy targets and DNR would only be embolded to take such actions through this sentiment by a few. I also fear a reduction in ones ability to troll more efficiently to turn people off from fishing all together from the spring season reducing the economic impact and participation levels of fishing. To me, a weakening of recreational fishing means a less attention to the needs of recreational fishing causes and strengthens the commercial fishing markets (as their economic impact means more to the state).

I fully agree with you that size limits are best way to handle this. We may disagree in what size-limit restrictions would be best for our state and our fishery but that is a debate for a later date. This will be a small issue in the sceme of things once we get to that point.

The point in my thread was to target the language being used to make trolling look inferior to other methods of fishing. I believe a reduction in this talk will better allow us to debate real issues - like what size or slot limits will best foster a good fishery in Maryland both today and tomorrow. I want to work to enhanse fishing in Maryland to the point where we can even argue for more of the allocation because recreational fishing has grown so much in economic value and participation. I just dont think that is possible when one type of recreational fishermen is viewing their method as "better" than anothers.

I hope this clears up my perspective to why this topic is important to me and you understand that I am not "going after" my friends. I attempted to do my best to publicly go after the language used and not the people. I apologize if you see that differently. If you believe my thoughts and arguements to be off base, I certainly am open to understanding your thoughts. :)

BTW, I have NEVER stated that you were working to restrict trolling. DNR and members of the SFAC have done a fine job of that without justification. I am just trying to eliminate the environment that would bolster their confidence to do so.

Hmmm?
 

Man I am all sorts of poorly named things because I troll,chum,live line and jig! My heart certianly is in the right place though in my truly humble opinion when it comes to the verilaty of the fishery and getting along with other anglers.
I trolled with 10 rods 2 days in a row and boated 1 fish each day for what it's worth.I like to eat fish and follow the rules set by our govt.. I would be fine with a 1 fish creel limit year round in all bodies of water Rock roam, it wouldn't keep me off the water one more second than I already do. I personally find enjoyment in caching fish with each different type of fishing because it is a challeng or sometimes just a nice change of pace, but i can assure you there is some talent in setting up and catching fish using a trolling spread and sometimes more than jigging!
It doesn't make any sense to me as we ALL have rights (commercial,rec and so on) set up by the powers that be to bust on anyone that follows the rules!
Most anglers are men (or boys in mens bodies!) and there in lies the problem! Our egos, our wounds and other issues we have as men are the problem and there is only one way in MHO to correct that.

Johnny O

I hope he catches more too...I'm out with him often:D

Point made time to move on....together. Sounds like we have the same big picture goal in mind, protecting the cows.

When this first started out I was sincerely trying to prove a point to a guy at work...about the number of rods he can fit on his boat...
But it seems as though some "true colors" are coming out...
Let's see...I have trolled...chummed..live lined..and didn't like any of them...LTJing is my thing..
Truth is trolling is the easiest way of fishing there is...IMHO opinion the reason trollers don't like LTJing guys is because they can't do it!.....
It's the only game they have,...
Greg..you know damn well I have bmailed you for trolling advice in the past..and as far as this bull about having "all of this repsect" for me and Shawn...Than why do our names keep being brought up.?

I got a bmail from a troller who is really a mate on a charter who keeps posting about how well his boat has done trolling....thats the Capt not the mate...I say good for Him!...
I was accused of being an "arrogant" LTJer....
OK I am...who gives a Crap!!
So let's do this...you trollers (Or should I say the ones that have a problem with LTJers)go back to riding around in the spring and killing cows and us LTJers can catch the rest of the year...and we'll keep catching.....You know as well as I do a monkey can catch a fish with a parachute..(though I have struggled at times with it)..:confused:
And don't foget about the Cow Killing MSSA Slaughter too......I have referred to that many times and I think thats how this whole thing started...
Dam glad I bought a Parker!

I was out the other day on a friends boat and we were trolling. After several hours, we only had one fish. If only we had one of those trolling monkeys at the helm:D.

But seriously; I'd be willing to buy a drink for Shawn, Jamie, Greg, me, and that booze hound monkey (if we can sneek him in the bar); just to stop the misunderstandings among friends.
Come on Baldy, set up another TF get together. I need some more of Fish Nut's chutes anyway.
5th (Marty)

Jamie, I have tried to explain my concerns over the growing anti-trolling sentiment the best I can. I am not aware of a sentiment where people who enjoy trolling dont like people who LTJ. I too am not putting down LTJ or the people who enjoy doing it as I proabably make more trips a year jigging than anything else (despite the fact that I mostly troll during the trophy and late fall seasons). I was addressing a sentiment that has been developing towards those who enjoy trolling on the bay.

I am sorry if you feel personally attacked but the thread you started drew a fire-strom long before I joined it. Therefore it was probably the best place for me to bring up my concerns. However, it was not your thread alone or Shawns article that has fostered the current environment. (as stated before, we are seeing trollers apologizing for their fishing methods in their reports now - and they are fishing legally)

I am glad you read the thread over here where I was better able to explain why I am concerned over some of the language being used. I understand your thread was probably started innocently enough but we are now in an environment where recreational anglers are having their opportunity reduced without science or justification in this state. Unfortunately this is true and has already happened. I fear that trollers efficiency/effort will be the low hanging fruit of future regulations. (best comparison would be like DNR restricting access to the rips because it is a common area where fish concentrations are higher)

I have spoken with Shawn and I believe there is much better understanding between us. I dont have your number but you are welcome to call me. As stated before my cell is 410.533.1435 and welcome a call from you.



BTW, The MSSA tournament has nothing to do with my concerns over possible efficiency/effort reductions being implimented on those that troll in the future. That is only one weekend in the spring and one if the fall. While I fish and enjoy the tournaments (and think they are good for recreational fishing), they are a small percentage of my fishing time. The MSSA tournament can be a seperate debate if you have concerns and want to address it.

Also, I often struggle at trolling too... even with my typical 12 rod spread it takes quite a bit of effort for me to find a fish in the open waters of the bay. That is why they call it fishing. I havent perfected my efficiency yet. I just hope to stay ahead of the 1 fish for every 3 trips level that dnr claims is average for recreational anglers.

I got better things to do than hang out with you!!!! (unless it's on a boat) :D

PS this thread went the way I predicted...YIKES :confused:

PPS Greg, when you agree with Zam in public, I think I need to call you to talk too :)

Why pick on Maryland, alone?

If you want to change the world, start with the Virginia, North Carolina harvest in the winter, where they don't know whether it's 200,000 or 800,000 fish harvested. Those fish are pre spawn..... Or include Massachusetts, where they harvest many more big pre spawn fish then Maryland, thru the summer into the fall. All are pre spawn.

NJ Anglers are allowed to keep up to 3 fish per angler over 28" with a trophy tag. (of course they have gamefish-only status for striped bass)

Here is a NJ limit!

http://www.canyonrunner.com/data/23/img/520.jpg

Reds, Mass had a bill to make striped bass a gamefish this year too.

I only count 19, 21 would be the limit. OK who's got a fish in his pocket and isnt happy to see me??

TED

There are 6 anglers and the captain. Each has 3 fish and the captain can keep one..............Gary

Well, I was just checkin.

TED

Look at the numbers and sizes of rec fish caught in Mass, they lead the states in big fish caught.

NJ's bonus rec fish is counted against the total Striped Bass commercial quota, even though there is no commercial harvest in NJ.

Anyway, my first post in this thread had nothing to do with commercial harvest.

There is a very, very large contingent of recreational fisherman who don't want to see the spring season bothered. And I don't mean charter people.

Reds - The ball started rolling against the rec angler when DNR put in the PSCR restrictions. Most of us have been predicting that those restrictions would find their way into the Trophy season, especially since so few people showed up to fight the DNR and their total lack of scientific data to support the proposed PSCR restrictions. DNR only looked into the whole PSCR issue because of complaints about increased effort. The next shoe to fall will be an attempt to decrease a perceived 'increase in effort' by trollers using 'too many rods' in their spreads. DNR reacts to complaints and the complaints starting to show up in the DNR inbox is that trollers are the problem because they use too many rods. As mentioned by Greg, DNR is starting to collect the data now. They will massage this data, just like they do with the MRFSS data, to support their next proposal. History is getting ready to repeat itself. I hope that 'large contingent' you refer to will be willing to sacrifice a little of their precious time and show up at some DNR meetings....Don

Wrong. The problem started when the pictures were posted on TF of the bloody fish before the season started. Those pictures made their way up the coast on every fishing forum there is.

Here is how I see it. If our trophy season gets further restrictions it will be based on the fact that we landed so many fish. Last trophy season we landed over 90k fish vs the 35k the year before. Unfortunately some were/are were trying to make preseason catch and release the red herring. However that doesnt change our harvest numbers from last year. Our exceptionally high harvest numbers from last year were said to be a result of more fishable days due to weather, increased angler participation, an increase in angler efficiency, and 28" and up without a no-take slot limit as compared to a few of the previous years. DNR will be looking at this trophy season closely. I will be curious to see how those numbers come in as opening weekend was very windy, this weekend is rainy and the reports have been bad for fishing, and it is supposed to rain the next several days. As stated earlier in this thread, if reductions are deemed necessary, which I think the could be given the signs out there, that size limits are looked at first instead of regulations that reduce efficiency (ones chance at catching fish).

I swore and swore I would not get drawn back into this BS, but at least it is moving more towards a conservation conversation...so why do I keep reading about the increased recreational harvest but I am sitting here reading an article in saltwater sportsman showing data presented to the ASMFC showing how the combined recreational harvest and discards moved froma total of 79% of the catch in 2006 to 49% in 2009...commercial harvest and by catch moved from 21% in 2006 to 51% in 2009...yet people keep saying increased recreational harvest...

WHO IS WRONG HERE??? The article is obviously on the recreational side, showing how despite the dramatic increase in commercial %s over the last 3 years they voted to increase commercial quota? why are arguing back and forth in these stupid arguments???

and Reds, yes, it did start from photos posted on TF...I talked to a few charters who said they personally were keeping a log of Skips posts and using them to start the ball rolling to shut down pre season C&R..they specifically mentioned him, and specifically said he was the reason...I told Skip about this a long time ago and sure enough it came to fruition. It started as a vendetta and grew and grew...I'm not saying it was the entire reason, but it had a lot to do with it...

Mark,
I was asking myself the same question. Baffling:confused:

Paul,
I think there is a happy medium somewhere...but it goes to show that statistics were altered during the process to specifically attempt to completely shut down a rec fishery and then they vote to increase commercial quotas!!!

Very interesting...ok back to hiding :)

I get the fact that data can be construed to your advantage, but if you can't trust DNR, MRFSS or the ASMFC (pick your fisheries management group), who can you trust:p

You can trust me Paul...............Gary

I have been telling you guys that we were at the top of the curve with the best/easiest CATCHING in my lifetime (I've been fishing in the Bay for over 50 years). It was inevitable that it would peak and start to decline. Now that everybody can't go out and catch 10-15 big fish everyday, the sky is falling. You should remember the last couple of years, they may be the best you will experience in your lifetime. That's why it's "fishing", not "catching".